Ms Elaine Dunne:

On the buildings, we have been working with a lot of providers in Dublin in particular, who have been trying to buy over these new buildings that the builders have put into the estates. They do not do any fitouts on them, so one is buying the building as a blank canvas, and then one has to go in and spend. I had a quote from a guy last week that was €250,000 or more to go in and fit out this service, after over €1 million is paid for it, and then one has to do that. It is just totally unworkable for small or medium services. We would not be able to afford it. I actually went for one myself and there was just no way, with the amount of money that was going to be lost on it. Then we found that there were a couple of buildings over in north Dublin that have been sitting there for five years. They were there to open up as crèches and providers have gone for them. Two providers locally have gone for it, two different services, and they kept telling us they had no gardens. We literally had to sneak into the grounds to find where the gardens were. There are gardens. The five years have expired, so they can now change those buildings into either apartments, shops or whatever they want, and that seems to be what is going on a lot on the ground.

These buildings have to be made viable for us to afford to take them on or buy them. Maybe it would be that the Government buys the buildings and leases them out to us. I do not know but somehow, something needs to happen. Four new services are going in beside me. For every 75 houses that are built, a crècheis going in but 75 houses will not keep a crèchegoing for the next ten years. That is the reality. We are not going to be able to do that. It is unworkable. If those crèches open up beside me, I am gone. I am completely gone, and I have been in business for over 30 years. One cannot compete. They can go in and charge whatever fee they want, and they can then sign up to core funding, so they are on a much better footing than me, as somebody who is tied into fee freezes for any services going back either to 2010, 2013, 2014 or 2017. One is stuck but that new service can go in next door, charge astronomical fees and sign up to core funding.