John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

What is going on is shocking. This is not a political point which is for the House. It is an administrative point. In terms of administration, Dr. McLoughlin and Mr. O'Brien have failed the public. That is now a widely held view. That is what leads me to believe that the HSE is not fit for purpose.

The earlier part of this meeting was similar to the exchange Dr. McLoughlin had with Deputy Fleming, not wishing to go back there. Mr. O'Brien is willingly going to give us the information and details on that budget proposal because it was released under a freedom of information request. As a senior civil servant, Dr. McLoughlin has, not for the first time, shown a huge disrespect to this committee by attempting to stonewall me in my questions to him. They were straightforward questions.

The matters are available in the public domain since they were furnished under freedom of information. There is something lacking in the Department. In respect of the emphasis on the budget required to run the HSE, the message is not getting across. Regardless of how difficult times are, nobody wants to see senior citizens in the situation in which they now find themselves. When they reflect on the list I have just read out of inefficiencies, poor spending, poor value for money, failure to achieve goals, and Groundhog Day all over again, they will be further disgusted.