Mr. Tony Donohoe:

On the question regarding quality, I would not like to give the impression that I was critiquing the quality of third level output. I was in my earlier remarks commenting on the heads of the Bill and the absence therein of any commentary around the validation, monitoring or reviewing of programmes. I would like now to comment on quality in general and on business perception around it because commentary around this issue is often fairly lazy.

When IBEC raises the issue of quality with companies, which it does on a fairly regular basis, 75% say they are satisfied with the quality of outputs from Irish higher education. Whether or not that percentage is positive or negative, it has been remarkably consistent. This should not be confused with some of the commentary one hears about specific skills deficits, particularly around ICT and engineering. That we are experiencing particular skills deficits does not mean third level is broken.

The other aspect of quality which IBEC emphasises is that of employability. This also pertains to technological universities. Again, slightly nebulous but very important are the skills, learning and attributes that graduates will require in the workplace. Why do we put emphasis on this? First, as they are likely to be in multiple careers, flexibility and learning to learn, which is probably the most powerful thing which higher education experience can give a person, is important because they will have to continue to reinvent themselves. Careers are typically much shorter now. Business is changing at such a rapid rate we cannot even forecast the types of occupations that are likely to exist in the next 20 years. What is important are the attributes and skills developed for young people to survive in this world, which we can just about begin to imagine. I recently read a report from the UK Skills Commission which speculated about the types of jobs that will exist in 2030, one of which is the occupation of ethical hacker. When sitting next to IBM's university engagement manager recently at a conference, I raised this issue with her and she told me IBM has an ethical hacking division.

In regard to what quality would look like for the technological university, flexible learning pathways are important. I do not wish to repeat what has been said regarding levels 6 and 7 but they are very important.

Related to that, a piece of work was carried out to review apprenticeships. I am not sure if the committee members had a chance to look at it, but it is potentially very interesting and links into the role of the TU because it posits the notion of advanced apprenticeships from level 5 to level 10. It fits into the idea of professionally ready graduates, which is at the root of quality as well. It is about the delivery of regional and national economic objectives and high quality occupational training. As Tom Boland said, this defining enterprise engagement piece is what quality will look like within the TU. It provides an alternative to the gold plated standard of the BA honours, to which too many families appear to aspire. Ultimately, some of the young people who go through these educational experiences might not get the jobs they had hoped to get. Again, the closeness of the TU to enterprise will, one hopes, make them qualified in the jobs that are more likely to be available in the labour markets.

With regard to the idea of levying multinationals, it is not something on which I would be jumping up and down, so to speak. Not only does higher education provide staff for these multinationals, the multinationals provide well paid, highly rewarding careers for their employees and a livelihood for their families. However, there is a point to be made regarding funding. Some universities get 50% of their funding from non-State sources. That raises issues around governance and deregulation of autonomy because they are functioning in an international market that is highly competitive. If we constrain them too much, they will be unable to do that. That is not to suggest that education is some type of commodity or to get into that debate, but that is the reality of these institutions. If the TU is of the scale we hope it will be, that will be the market it will compete in as well for research and talent.