Professor Brian Norton:

Deputy McConalogue asked about funding. It is an issue and we are at a point in the economic cycle where revenue is available. Irrespective of this legislation there needs to be an improved funding base for institutions to function effectively and in relation to student hardship. Many cases of students dropping out are due to student hardship and family circumstances, etc. There are other developments, for example in the context of merging DIT, ITB and ITT, the relocation of DIT to Grangegorman which would bring costs together and reduce costs, for example the institutions would have only one president. This would allow them to put more resources to the coal face. There would be savings which would enable one to do certain things. There would be expenditures, as always with institutional change. Both Deputy McConalogue and Senator Cullinane raised the critically important matter of levels 6 to 7.

One of the differentiating factors is providing a level of opportunity and for legibility of opportunities for different learners to move between different levels and modes of study in different locations. They should be able to take a module in this or that location and build a degree, which is the important part of what it is about. I am not sure one should include that in legislation because the demand for particular levels of programmes and types of programmes varies with the economy and this, that and the other and to legislate at a particular point in time may be inappropriate. However, the legislation should enshrine the commitment of a technological university to the area because that is our commitment. In the particular consortium of three institutions I represent, the level of study is growing, not declining.

With regard to the criteria referred to by Senators David Cullinane and Averil Power, they are reasonable and appropriate in a broad sense. The idea of an international panel then making a judgment is important because what might be a criterion today might not be tomorrow. Higher education is developing internationally and one might want to be more rigorous or use different criteria at some point in the future; therefore, one needs to be cautious about what one includes in legislation and avoid things that might be contradictory, for example, having things that are a percentage of another number and that other number being a function of other things can lead to some contradictory and oddly shaped institutions. A number of people are using the walk like a duck, talk like a duck argument about a university, but if one does this, one can end up with strong contortions.

A key factor is flexibility and the ability to move between part-time and full-time modes of study. I agree that there should be progress from further education and with levels 6 and 7 being part of the criteria. I do not over-emphasise any particular aspect, for example, research or high levels of qualifications.

I agree strongly with Senator Averil Power that student representation should be by a students' union and that it should represent both undergraduates and postgraduates, as my colleague in the DIT students' union said earlier.

Senators Averil Power and Fidelma Healy Eames raised the issue of differentiation. We are looking at a practice-led institution; ours is not an institution that will produce people to tell others to do things. The people concerned can do things; they are entrepreneurial and international. This is a small, open international trading economy and our graduates work internationally and in the city. That understanding is critically important for success. They are also active citizens and active participants in the democratic process and do not just have an economic role.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames asked what would be the difference between GMIT and WIT in the future, but I cannot speak for these institutions, sadly. Looking at it in the context of a technological university in Dublin, level 8 provision will have legible access from levels 6 and 7 and there will be an ability to move between full and part-time and between workplace and study modes.