James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Deputy Brian Stanley referred to non-nationals returning to their home countries to give birth, the inference being that some maternity services are unsafe. I do not think the statistics, even though we have had a discussion on them, bear this out. As a doctor, I know there are many reasons people go back to their home countries to give birth, as they like to be near their parents, families and friends. That is not to say, however, that I am going to rely on statistics because they do not reveal incidents like the ones we have seen in Portlaoise hospital. I remind members of the best case involving the three-in-one vaccine in which some children suffered brain damage. Statistically, one could not prove the vaccine had caused the damage, but a whistleblower in the company blew the lid and told about the bad batch. When that batch was looked at, one was able to determine that it had been the cause of the problem. Statistics can only tell us so much. What else do we have to compare ourselves with other countries? We cannot use anecdotal evidence all the time; we need a much more sensitive measure to monitor what is going on in hospitals, not only in maternity services but everywhere else. We are developing such a measure through HIQA.

Deputy Brian Stanley mentioned an independent recommendation on the use of the artificial oxytocin hormone or Syntocinon, as it is known. Recommendation No. 20 is a national guideline on the induction of labour and should be developed by the HSE. That will be done.

Deputy Lucinda Creighton asked several questions. I am not happy as Minister for Health to take people's word; I need validation and evidence-based decision-making. The same applies to section rates, in respect of which there are significant variations. The Deputy may have mentioned the WHO rates for sections, but we must remember that the World Health Organization looks at all countries in the Third World, Second World and First World.

When I met the Institute of Obstetricians, it was at pains to point out that while the section rate worldwide was around 15%, that was not the case in First World countries such as Ireland. Here the rate is 27% or 28%, which still means that we have some hospitals that are outliers with rates of 38%. I want that matter to be investigated and a report on it.

Deputy Lucinda Creighton has mentioned the need for an independent body, which is referred to in recommendation No. 11. That monitoring is to be carried out by HIQA which, we would all agree, has been independent in the manner in which it has carried out its investigations in an even-handed way. I should take the opportunity to inform the committee that Dr. Tracey Cooper, the CEO of HIQA, is leaving to take up a new job in the public health sector in Wales, her home country. I wish her well and thank her for all of the work she has done in shepherding HIQA into the space it is in where it is considered to be fair, independent and unafraid to say it like it is.

I will let Dr. Holohan deal with the perinatal statistics. The Deputy asked if I considered it acceptable that complaints could be in the system for that length of time. I do not.

Deputy Sean Fleming asked if it had taken the "Prime Time" programme to prompt us into taking action. While I had received a letter in relation to an incident, when I watched the "Prime Time" programme and saw that there had been four or five incidents, obviously, we had to take action immediately.

I am aware that the Deputy was concerned about the inquests, an issue we have discussed here. The adversarial nature of inquests needs to change, as well as the expense involved. Sometimes parents have to dig deep into their financial resources to get through an inquest, given its adversarial nature. That is not right. I agree with the Deputy 100% in terms of the manner in which the HSE has historically dealt with some of these cases which continued for several years before then being settled on the doorstep of the court. There is a better way and we will have a better way because it is not fair that parents should have to remortgage their homes to get justice for their children.