Mary Seery Kearney (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Everybody is welcome. I thank the Minister for taking the time to attend. I appreciate that she is very busy at the moment so she is very good to come here.

As long ago as 2010, the American Journal of Drug and Alcohol Use published an article that said smartphone use and social media platforms - platforms, apps and games - were designed to be addictive, which is what is addressed in this motion. We have the American Time Use Survey, which was published in Jonathan Haidt's recent book, and shows that the number of minutes young people of primary school age play with or interact with their peers has decreased from 160 minutes a day to fewer than 15 minutes a day. In January or February of this year, the CyberSafeKids report showed that 24% of 6-year-olds have their own smart device, and 48% of 10-year-olds are in their bedrooms on their own and unsupervised with a small device. In September 2023, the Journal of Psychology stated that interaction with parents has decreased, which is precious social interaction. We have the publication by the US Surgeon General of a mental health warning that there is sleep deprivation, mental health and anxiety.

In January of this year, President Macron gathered together a group of experts and set them the task of compiling a report. They have a piece of work that asks them to: develop a shared understanding of the impact of screen usage on the physical and mental health of children and teenagers; assess the effectiveness of existing regulatory measures, particularly parental controls; draft a doctrine for regulating screens; and propose and promote tools adapted to all audiences with age differentiated approaches.

A group of high-school students in the States produced a study. They decided that they would monitor their TikTok use because they found it so addictive. Each Monday, over a number of weeks, they shared the screentime report on their phones with their teachers. They monitored their usage and to begin with were quite frightened by the results. They showed that once they were all conscious of their usage and put in place protocols, their screentime decreased considerably. Once they were in a place of awareness their mental health improved and their anxiety levels were more proportionate.

In this motion we call for a ban on smartphone device ownership for people who under 13 years of age. We also call for the enforcement of the digital age of consent, on which there was a lot of debate concerning the Data Protection Act, the GDPR implementation Act. There was a lot of consideration of the digital age of consent which is 16 years of age yet we have social media accounts permitted from 13 years of age. In actual fact the business model of these companies is based on the addictive capturing of attention by the social media platforms. It is designed to hold young people and, in fact, all of us. That is, everyone outside of politics, where we are all a bit obsessed with checking our phones anyway. If one went into an average café or restaurant, one would see people sitting together on their phones. There is a marked reduction of personal interaction.

While the Fine Gael group is focusing on young people in this motion, there is a change in our society’s culture, how we interact and from where we get our information. I am sure the Minister is seeing it on doors, as I am, with people saying they do not follow the mainstream media anymore and get all of their information from social media. I find that very disturbing and upsetting.

We need to take major steps and start the conversation. I appreciate that the Minister will not run into the Seanad with legislation next week. However, we need to start the conversation if we are to increase what we are doing and set a cultural tone to the effect that the ownership of smart devices should not happen. If the children of people in these mega companies are not allowed smart devices, it tells us everything we need to know. Once Holy Communion age was hit in our house, we were asked whether someone could buy a phone, to which the answer was “No, not until secondary school”. This raises the potential of peer pressure. I am reasonably resilient in that respect but, by introducing legislation, we would be supporting other parents. The peer pressure would be out the window because we would be saying that they should not get these devices. As with smoking and alcohol, there should be an age threshold, and only after reaching it should someone be permitted to own a device and have a social media account.In looking at it, we need to use the precautionary principle. I accept that we need more longitudinal studies, more research and so on but we must prioritise safety. We must be mindful of the fact that a for-profit attention economy is at the heart of smart devices and social media.

I acknowledge the huge steps forward with the Online Safety and Media Regulation Act, the Digital Services Act, and the establishment of the commission. I met with Niamh Hodnett and her team only three weeks ago. They are very impressive. They are developing the code of conduct. Everything that they are doing there is really fantastic. I believe they will have serious teeth in time. Investigations have commenced. I agree that we have set a lot of things in motion. However, they are not the only solution.

I worry about sleep deprivation, anxiety and mental health issues. When we consider and examine such issues, we see that they are not the only answer. The Minister for Education facilitated a meeting and when she asked a question about age verification she got no answer to it. She is only enabled to talk about voluntary codes in schools. It is not fair either to put all of the emphasis on the schools doing the regulation. The assumption is that if they regulate for smartphones then that will deal with it. Parents have a huge role here and should have a huge responsibility, but maybe they do not consider that there are dangers. Maybe they do not get it, but I get it. I have received a huge number of emails. I have talked about this for years. Because I practise in privacy law, I read books earlier and was very sensitive to Mary Aiken's position on things, so I have been more sensitised to it but, in general, people are perhaps under pressure. They put on Cocomelon or whatever else and give it to a child so that it will give them a bit of peace, which might allow them to make a phone call. I am not condemning anybody for doing that. However, the Government needs to show leadership in this area. There are great things. I am sure my colleagues will talk about assistive technology, and all of the benefits that come with smart devices. In school, there are great things. There is connectivity and all of those things, but at the heart of this business model is an addictive piece of engineering that is designed to capture youth at the cost of sports, physical activities and social development and interaction.

Yesterday at the Joint Committee on Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth we had the consultative youth panel of the Ombudsman for Children, and the ombudsman before us. We talked about AI and what the consultative forum does. I took a punt and asked the members of the consultative forum what they think. They are teenagers in secondary schools. All of them condemned the ownership of smartphones before the age of 13. Some of them had phones since they were six. They said there should be absolutely no social media until the mid-teens because it causes mental health issues. They wish they had never had a phone. Even though I think I am pretty radical on it, they were much more radical than I would be. They were much more in favour of saying this cannot happen and this should not be like that. I thank the Minister. I will hand over to Senator Dolan now.