Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the fact that the Minister of State listened to the arguments we made. I take at face value his statement that the changes will be made and I appreciate that there have to be safeguards. There is no doubt that we have to allow for and expect bad actors. The intent of the Bill is primarily good. It is to address harmful gambling, which we know destroys lives. It is good that the Minister of State accepts that the committee did not intend to include fundraising as gambling. What the Minister of State brings to the Seanad is likely to come back here.

It is important to reiterate that we have approximately 12,000 charities, many of which are schools. There are all sorts of organisations, including social care and healthcare organisations. They get most of their funds not through philanthropy but through direct fundraising. It is important that the amendments made take this into account.

Many of the services provided through charities really should be provided by way of general taxation because they should be public services. Services should not be delivered by charities but by way of rights. This is an entirely different debate, but it is one that we should have at some point.

On the point Deputy Doherty made on annual draws, I expect that several people from the local GAA or soccer club will knock on my door in December. They work according to an annual arrangement so they can predict funding for the following year. It would be quite reasonable to change the timelines prescribed in legislation in this regard. That kind of thing is not something that should mean we do not get past this Stage without divisions.

Now that there is a focus on having fundraising separate from gambling, the focus is on understanding what needs to be done. I hope this is the approach the Minister of State will take.

We must remember it is not just about soccer and GAA clubs; very often, it involves schools. I was working recently with a school that was trying to get a fundraising licence just to augment some school facilities. The idea that a school would be a charity is difficult to get your head around, but most of them are. We cannot ignore the fact that some of the services should be straightforward public services.

We have underinvested greatly in some things that are really beneficial to society. In this regard, not enough can be spent on sports and other leisure activities. If a youngster can be diverted, it feeds into exactly what the Minister of State is trying to do, which is to produce a healthy society. Eliminating gambling is one aspect but there is a conflict. I am glad he has listened and is taking on board the point, but maybe he will address some of the issues raised by several of us.

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